Twinkl feature Darren Harvey-Hill, Facilities and Compliance Director in interview with Pete Mills

We are delighted to share the first in a series of blog posts we will be dedicating to the professionals in schools estates management putting a spotlight on their backgrounds, accomplishments and how they develop the school estate and property portfolio.

You can read the full in-depth interview with Darren here:

Twinkl Blog - Good schools estate management by Darren Harvey-Hill and Pete Mills.

Or read the in-depth interview here.

Pete: Well, thank you very much. And this is really cool. Because remember when I was saying about showcasing, and it's not just about Crysp, it's about you and the school and I think your background is really interesting and how you've come into it. And so where this will be going, is the Twinkl blog. Okay, so you're probably going to be read by 10,000s of teachers, not just in the UK, but globally. So no pressure. Superb. But yeah, so I, you know, we don't need to worry about any, any formalities, but just, we can just get into some natural conversation for 20 minutes. And I think from my perspective, it would be lovely to hear a little bit about you, you know, the role that you have within the trust and the trust itself and now asked to start picking out some of that conversation.

Darren: Yeah, no problem at all. So yeah, so I'm currently employed as the Carlton Academy Trust facilities and compliance director. So that's been enhanced from my previous role as the operations manager at a secondary school here in West Yorkshire. I'm predominantly responsible for overseeing all the statutory compliance checks for all five schools, assisting with training on health and safety, risk assessments, and any mandatory checks I want my facilities coordinators to complete. And pretty much make sure that they're boxed away and in a healthy state ready for any external health and safety inspections. 

Pete: Right, cool. So big question, how did you end up in this space?

Darren: Well, I completed a full 23-year career in the military. And then, when I retired from there at the age of 40, decided to look for a new career stream. Health and safety and compliance was a natural sort of hand in glove sort of situation for me - because at the back end of my career, within the military police  I'd obviously taken up a role in what is a traditional quartermaster, sort of like a storeman's role, where I was heavily audited, heavily inspected. So the the retraining courses that I did on leaving the army were pretty much based around health and safety, auditing and compliance. I then I secured a role with British Gas, where, for about 15 months, I was going around auditing and checking their small sites and larger sites. So the that's where kind of the experience came from, and the opportunity to come into education was initially due to being a lot more local to my home address. But yeah, it's yeah, the education sectors, certainly challenging and offers different experiences every day.

Pete: Yeah. So you've been on a bit of a journey with Carlton, the trust, haven't you? So you've been part of management team, and I mean, it'd be great to hear a little bit about the schools in Bradford and possibly, you know, where it's where it's come from, you know, in terms of some of the challenges and obviously, as a management team, where you've where you've brought it today, which is outstanding, isn't it?

Darren: Yes, Carlton Bolling school, one of the secondary schools, is currently an outstanding Ofsted rated school. Carlton Keighley is also Ofsted good, but we're really trying to get that to outstanding also. And then we also have three primary schools. Initially, the main initiator of the trust, obviously was Carlton Bolling, which went on a journey itself from being a fairly broken school in a deprived area to as you say, where it is now, an outstanding school. The two secondary schools are under PFI contracts. So again, that comes under its own challenges. We're fairly limited as to what we can and can't do. But obviously, to secure the safeguarding for the SLT of the trust and for the schools, it's important that we can confirm that the PFI contract has been run efficiently and that the compliance is still undertaken for those sites. The three primary schools that we took on board in December, they were all previously run by Bradford council. So initially, we've taken them on board and again, we've got them to a healthy state now and somewhere that we're happy with, but, you know, the wheels never stopped turning. We're all constantly evolving, trying to get all of our schools within the trust as good as we can.

Pete: Yeah, so do you think that there are lessons that you've clearly learned from the military career, as you're saying towards the tail end, but also that commercial world as well with British Gas, where you've seen standards that you would like to drive into school?

Darren: Absolutely, absolutely. I think obviously, some of the initial stages were in some of the schools that I've seen that have been taken by the local authority, not saying that they weren't doing correctly, but from the commercial world, I think each school needs to have somebody that's kind of commercially aware, they're aware of the health and safety legislation, they're aware of what can happen if it's not done correctly. And that takes away a lot of the burden from the head teachers and the senior leadership team whose primary aim is to develop teaching and learning and basically, not really have to rely on worrying about the health and safety aspects. They just need a quick-fire reassurance from people like myself and site management teams that the site is safe. Everything's aboveboard. Everything's been serviced as it should be, and is legally compliant.

Pete: Yeah, sure. And how do you ensure that there's a culture of safety? And because, let's be honest, the concept of health and safety, although we take it seriously, of course, but there's many people inside an organization where, if that's not their primary role, it's just not a sexy thing. You know, using that word to engage? These are some of the experiences we find. So how do you, as a leader in this space, get people on board?

Darren: I think it's without scaring, per se, just reaffirming the implications if it's not done correctly, and if it goes wrong, and ultimately where that buck stops. As the head teacher of a school, you have primary responsibility, you hold that responsibility, although you will devolve it to people like myself and your site caretakers, ultimately, when it does go wrong, the buck stops there.

Pete: Okay. So you're sort of building the culture, in that sense?

Darren: Yeah, absolutely. And again, it's trying as well not to overburden the leadership team with things that are not really, you know, their predominant aim. Their aim is to focus on teaching and learning and giving the best for the students, and they want to be reassured that everything within the building is where it needs to be. And that means regular updates with the senior leadership team. I mean, my process was initially an Excel spreadsheet that they could quickly look at and quickly reference. And hence, that's where, obviously, the introduction came with Crysp. With Crysp, where we learnt that actually, if that was an electronic platform, I can see a traffic light system. If I see green straight away down, you know, I don't really have to look too far. Which is exactly why Crysp is perfect for us.

Pete: It just gives you that visibility, doesn't it? And obviously, you're a super organized professional, because I've seen what you had before. So I know you run it like a military operation. It's very diligent. But you clearly saw the point of "Well, hang on, what if this was a digital platform?" So what would you say to people that are thinking: "Well, I use an Excel spreadsheet. For example, why would you want to use a platform like Crysp over a well-run spreadsheet?"

Darren: Yeah, I think the other benefits of using Crysp for me, are that I completely upload everything onto the same platform. So I'm not looking and sifting through emails. If that contract is emailed me, or for some reason, his office, the school office, or they've emailed the caretaker direct, I'm not then scrapping around thinking "where's the service inspection sheet for this?" I've uploaded it. It's linked in with the date and time that the certificate was issued, to the date that this inspection was completed. And then I can again flag it up - which is the other bonus - I can flag up a six-month counting calendar so that I know this needs to be done in six months. And I'll give myself a nudge point that I think I need to be at. So whether that's 30 days, 60 days - I'll get that alert that says, "come on Darren, 60 days time your emergency lights are due to be checked again", just because everybody's busy. Everybody's, you know, rushing around in a million jobs - but having that little safety blanket and a little bit of a nudge, just to remind me, it is worth its weight in gold. 

Pete: Yeah, that's fantastic. And I know from our previous conversation, you know - with the number of properties that sit under your remit, as facilities compliance director, you were doing a lot in the car, you know, you were heading to different locations. Do you feel like with the journey you’re now, on with the digital transformation of your processes, that there's an opportunity to spend more time on what you need to do? And less time, I guess, in the car?

Darren: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the benefits, obviously, of an electronic system is that, so long as I can be remote, which I can - I can view all five schools from the same desk, I can physically see the documents that my caretakers are uploading. So I know that the dates are correct. I know that the contractors have been, I can see when my caretakers have uploaded safe access forms, I can check risk assessments without leaving my office. Obviously, I still visit all my sites regularly. But the safety blanket of knowing that, effectively, I can check all their audit files from one location is, again, a massive benefit.

Pete: Yeah, fantastic. It's really cool to hear you say that. And I guess, you know, from  your perspective, too, it's just interesting, with people maybe  reading this, or are watching the video. What would you say in terms of starting out this challenge, you know, from taking it, or opportunity, whichever way you view the world? But what would you say to people looking to take their first steps in, in a digital journey?

Darren: Yeah, I mean, it's it, it's, again, it's nothing really to be scared of, I've got a number of caretakers that are not IT savvy. But we've tried to make the system as user-friendly as possible. Again, we're still doing a few initial tweaks, because we're still in our early embryonic stage of where we are. But we're tweaking and developing all the time. Honestly, it is a user-friendly system that even the non-high-tech savvy site managers can can oversee and get their head around fairly quickly. And even the caretakers are even responding positively back to me. They say, "oh, yeah, you know, we're really happy". They like to see the green as much as I like to see the green.

Pete: So it's almost gamifying work, isn't it? But it is, in a way?

Darren: Yeah. And again, for the five minutes that the head teacher might need before they go into a governing body meeting, they can pull it up on the big screen projector.  It's literally as simple as "there you go. There's your greens, there's your ambers, there's your reds," and that you can obviously screw down into any of those in just a few little clicks. And the fact that I'm uploading the documents, they can see what would have been stored in a paper file, just right there on the screen. 

Pete: Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I think you'd be in good shape, which is, which is brilliant. And I guess just as a final question. You know, if someone decides to go on and - and this isn't necessarily about Crysp - but just generally in terms of health and safety improvements, how did you champion that internally, both downstream and upstream? How did you sort of get the support for going, "right, we're going to do this, and this is what we want to get behind"?

Darren: I'm fairly blessed that obviously my CEO was immediately on board, he immediately sees the benefits. Again, it takes what might have ordinarily been a 20-minute meeting with the head teacher to go through compliance and sift through paperwork, to literally just five minutes - short and sharp, straight to the point, and they can see everything clearly, if they want to drill down deep into it. They know all the head teachers have got access to this system so they can literally just log on and see their school at anytime, day or night. So even if they're rushing out the door, at three o'clock, they can say, "I'll check that tonight". They just log on, then they can access everything I can access. Obviously, I can only edit it, they can view it.

Pete: So, in terms of the future - what are the future developments that you would like? Obviously, we'd be working together on this, no doubt - but also, just from your own mind, and where you take the buildings, what kind of future developments are you starting to think about? And what would you like to see from Crysp?

Darren: As well as the contractors and statutory compliance checks that we have on there, we're now developing the forms that the caretakers will fill in on a weekly basis. So you know, your emergency light checks, your fire extinguisher checks - they'll be able to complete them electronically, and they'll be saved within the system as well. And again, this is where, if a caretaker leaves or resigns, you're not plodding around thinking, "where's his files? What did he do with those?" - they're all logged in chronological order and easy to find. I think the next steps, as we mentioned, are that we're going to look at having some sort of tablet device for the site teams. We would envisage having facilities support email, that then would automatically generate an alert of some description on that tablet. So for the caretakers - instead of people trying to find him - an alert will come up, and it might say, "we've got a flood in the nursery toilets, can you come and have a look"? Off he goes, with the ability to use that tablet to take pictures of the issue, he can then upload those to the system. Again, I don't necessarily need to be on that site - I can see if he's uploaded pictures, and whether I can quickly fix it over the phone - with a "show me a picture of the boiler, right? I've seen this before, do this, this and this," then problems are resolved again. I don't have to rush out straight to a site, I can use his tablet to pretty much be where he is, and offer that guidance as well. 

Pete: Amazing. So it gives you that real time ability, which is really exciting. So again, saving you time and money, right? So that's, that's really cool. Well, look, I think that's been a really interesting insight into the system and other things. And you know, I think people will be interested about when you're not a full time facilities director - what do you like to do to chill out? And you're a family man as well?

Darren: I'm pretty keen to get to as many live gigs as I can, whether outdoors or indoors - I'm a big music fan. A motorcyclist, as well - I head off to motorcycle rallies here, there and everywhere. I did the North Coast 500 last summer. And I'm heading to the States in August. So hiring a few Harleys and a few ex army pals are going to go and do a bit of a tour around America for a few days.

Pete: Well, considering that I can't ride a motorcycle, I think I'll be dead weight unless you want to put one of those little nice sidecars, and I'll live the dream with you. But that's amazing. Darren, I really appreciate you just sharing some insight into what we're trying to do at Crysp. And you know, this is to really help schools. And I think there's a lot of over the past, you know, 10 years, the digital opportunity just feels that it's been very expensive, or it's not easy to use. And it's just great to hear your version of how you've been using Crysp. So thank you.

Darren: No problems. Because I mean, as I mentioned, like the tablets and the alerts for that for the faults, that will have a closing out system as well. So if you've reported it, the caretaker will literally have a flag there to say resolved, under work, do not use etc. And then that'll send that alert straight back again. So whoever's reported it will have a fairly immediate answer as to where that situation is, and they'll know it's been reported. So yeah, it's just exciting times for us both in this partnership and looking forward to progressing it as well to where we need to be.

Pete: Yeah, thank you, Darren. I really appreciate that. Thank you very much for your time.

Darren: No problems.